Why do some people use equipment that was designed when dinosaurs ruled the Earth?
Do you still use DAT? CD recorders? Outboard effects units? Come on and admit it - you're a dinosaur!
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Why do some people use equipment that was designed when dinosaurs ruled the Earth?
Do you still use DAT? CD recorders? Outboard effects units? Come on and admit it - you're a dinosaur!
One thing that people forget about dinosaurs is that they ruled the Earth for a lot longer than we humans have, so far.
So we might think we are the most successful species ever, but we haven't quite proved that we can live up to the achievements of the great lizards.
But there are audio dinosaurs too - equipment that really ought to be extinct by now.
One such is the DAT recorder. DAT stands for 'Digital Audio Tape' and in its heyday everyone had a DAT recorder. And anyone who didn't have one desperately wanted one.
DAT was used as a stereo mastering format. Before DAT, which means before around 1987, the only option was to master to analog tape (or other ultra-ultra-expensive digital formats post-1980).
Analog tape may have an interesting sound quality that we might sometimes use as an effect these days. But back in the 1980s people hated its murky noise and distortion. DAT was like pure spring water, distilled three times, in comparison.
But then people started mastering directly to computer files, and storing their backups on writeable CD or DVD. Then they started using 24-bit resolution and 96 kHz sampling rate, where standard DAT was only capable of 16-bit / 44.1 or 48 kHz.
So gradually the point of DAT became less and less. And now the only real use they have is to play back old tapes from the archive.
Except...
Do you know different? Do you have a DAT recorder that you still actively use?
I'll ask the same question about CD recorders. Do you have a standalone CD recorder that you still use?
Outboard effects units? Why oh why when so many excellent plug-ins are available?
If you are still using any of these types of equipment, please tell us about your motives and experiences, and why you refuse to change with the times.
It could easily be that the ancient dinosaurs of audio are right, and the computerized mammals are wrong. Discussion below...
(By the way, the CD burner illustrated is a recently released product. Someone must be buying it.)
Publication date Monday January 25, 2010
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Discussion on this article's topic...
Mike, Atlanta , USA
Okay, it's time to confess that I'm a gear addict, although the Line 6 Pro that I'm replacing with a brand new Digi Eleven is ten years old. But one of the things that's interesting to me is this: I started as a musician and recordist with guitars and a Teac 15 IPS reel to reel that was considered a top piece of gear 30 years ago. In the early 1990s, I migrated to Pro-Tools Session 8, recording eight tracks at 20 bit/48 Mhz and mixing to DAT tapes. I'm on my umpteenth MOTU system, now with unlimited tracks and countless other upgrades. You know what? The sound quality I achieved 15 years ago was great, in fact, almost indistinguisable from today. But now I'm able to do far more ambitious projects, have layers of sound, use more instruments, tune already great vocals, have convolution reverbs and correct audio problems like sibilance. And freakin' Vocal Rider helped me mix complex vocals in half the time. So in the end, there is some method to my madness and gear lust. But old school gear can be just as good, and for some the simplicity and not having to think about all the technology is ideal. To each his/her own. Let's keep making great music!!!
Wednesday June 16, 2010
Bgremixes.com, Richmond,va , USA
FOR PRODUCING ELECTRONIC SAMPLE BASED TRACKS I HAVE
AKAI MPC 2000 (1997)
AKAI MPC 2000 XL (1999)
AKAI MPC 1000 (2004)
Most people making he music styles I make do it all within mac/pc programs like logic, reason or fl studio
I just prefer the hands on non mouse clicking music producing.. it's more "FUN"
AKAI MPC 2000 (1997)
AKAI MPC 2000 XL (1999)
AKAI MPC 1000 (2004)
Most people making he music styles I make do it all within mac/pc programs like logic, reason or fl studio
I just prefer the hands on non mouse clicking music producing.. it's more "FUN"
Wednesday May 19, 2010
Juan Alvarado, San Antonio,tx, USA
Jeez. I've been using a hi-fi vcr to record my music. I have a DAT as well.
Monday May 17, 2010
Jody Beard, Laf La, USA
Amazing! If it works, use it. Wow! what a concept.
Thursday April 15, 2010
Bernie Scott, St. Jihn's, Canada
I don't think that this is an issue with "mine is bigger than yours" so to speak. I think the main thing that people to this particular post are doing is just letting other people know of what they use and why they like to use it. I guess some of the people here I would not agree with the equipment they use but I am in no position to tell them they are right or wrong. Each person has his or her own preference as I perfer to use a Gibson Les Paul over a Fender Strat. I don't like Stats personally but that does not mean they are not a good guitar. They are a fine guitar. I just prefer the sound and feel of a Gibson Les Paul. I hate SG's however. So I am a person who loves analog gear and hate computer based gear. I have a computer downstairs that still has Windows 98 SE on it. I have programs that won't run on XP and I can't justify the expense to buy new software. So I keep 98 going if I need it.The software running on 98 might not be as fast due to it being on an older computer but it still works fine, so why should I spend more money upgrading when I already have the programs that work on an older system. I also have a 1976 Marshall vacuum tube amp running 4 12 inch speakers.Should I ditch that and buy something new from say like Line Six or some other company just because it has all kinds of effects built in and it has only been on the market for a few years? I think not!! The Marshall I have has no built in digital effects, no effects loop, no nothing only pure vacuun tube power.And that is the way I like it.And that also does not mean that my way is better than somebody else's. There is no such thing as right or wrong. It just means that this is what I like.
Wednesday April 14, 2010
Ripp, Wilmington,de, USA
I don,t see very much info on stand alone recorders and I use 2 of them,DP01 and 2488 MKII.Being a musician this frees me up to record and not constantly have to check computer stuff.seems to me this is a mine is bigger than yours issue.
Monday March 29, 2010
Aleksander, Stockholm, Sweden
I dont move on becouse being modern is not practical for all things if I need to sacrifice certain things I have been used with -- old already bought expansion cards or software. I use even older system -- becouse it has faster response to user, working and I have total control over the system myself (-- and thats the computer salesmans and technicians are NOT interested about).
I still use outboard reverbs.
I use MINIDISC recorder for improvisation sessions (to computer I record only the ready sequenced things), becouse for improvisation based things there are 101 additional things what can go wrong in computer and have had serious problems.
I would use computer if there are more
independant things and software. But following all that modern crap I have no choice, but being dependant totally. INdustry what before says as innovation, will render my bought software and expansion cards to garbage... but now it is changing so fast in computer industry that new products will be garbage before they are even released to the market. ;-)
If always the OS will be old, then its good to just stick on things which work and dont upgrade. But keep things independent.
What
about the older VSTs if the new versions and standards are coming? What about expansion cards I want to use? The only way -- to keep the old computer.
My old midi synths from 1982 will be still compatible, but not the VSTs after 5 years on new system. There are some positive things about computer things, yes, but if they are not working on critical moments...? Then old ways will work! So its always good to keep the old possibilities. The same purpose serves old computer with older OS -- becouse I have total control over it!
Also I am more interested to have the same familiar interface for next 10 years, to use the same expansion units, synths, computer industry and software industry is making it uncompatible, becouse they are more interested about selling... and then again it re-creates the problem of re-installing things.
PRoblem is also getting work the old software what I need on new system or using old expansion cards on new system.
And I have got enough.
External units are what they always work. I have just bought them once and can use always, always compatible, and .. independant, no needing deep compatibility list for hardware and OS!!!
I still use outboard reverbs.
I use MINIDISC recorder for improvisation sessions (to computer I record only the ready sequenced things), becouse for improvisation based things there are 101 additional things what can go wrong in computer and have had serious problems.
I would use computer if there are more
independant things and software. But following all that modern crap I have no choice, but being dependant totally. INdustry what before says as innovation, will render my bought software and expansion cards to garbage... but now it is changing so fast in computer industry that new products will be garbage before they are even released to the market. ;-)
If always the OS will be old, then its good to just stick on things which work and dont upgrade. But keep things independent.
What
about the older VSTs if the new versions and standards are coming? What about expansion cards I want to use? The only way -- to keep the old computer.
My old midi synths from 1982 will be still compatible, but not the VSTs after 5 years on new system. There are some positive things about computer things, yes, but if they are not working on critical moments...? Then old ways will work! So its always good to keep the old possibilities. The same purpose serves old computer with older OS -- becouse I have total control over it!
Also I am more interested to have the same familiar interface for next 10 years, to use the same expansion units, synths, computer industry and software industry is making it uncompatible, becouse they are more interested about selling... and then again it re-creates the problem of re-installing things.
PRoblem is also getting work the old software what I need on new system or using old expansion cards on new system.
And I have got enough.
External units are what they always work. I have just bought them once and can use always, always compatible, and .. independant, no needing deep compatibility list for hardware and OS!!!
Monday March 01, 2010
Msmarystrikens, Stirling, United Kingdom
Hi! I really liked your forum, especially this section. I just signed up and immediately decided to introduce myself, if I'm wrong section, ask the moderators to move the topic to the right place, hopefully it will take me well... My name is Mary, me 29 years, humourist and serious woman in one person. I apologize for my English
Saturday February 27, 2010
Lee, Milton Keynes, England
Even though I use Logic 9 and Reason 4 along with a pile of VST's I still have and use my very trusted Roland SH-101, I love it and could never part with it. to be able to touch something and create a good sound is very refreshing sometimes.
Tuesday February 23, 2010
Karel Post, Grou, The Netherlands
I use:
Memorymoog prophet5 Juno's Jupiter8 S1100's Analog desk Outboard effects only!
DMX 808 LINNDRUM DPX SYNCUSSION etc...
No DAW, but a RADAR24 for multitrack.
Analog tape to record guitars and vocals, THEN sample and edit on S1100 and S5000.
Drawmer compression (a BIT).
Mastering through DCS converters.
Why? Because that is MY SOUND, and i LIKE IT...
Watch this youtube thingy and maybe you'll understand..:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZCY2hcu91c
Memorymoog prophet5 Juno's Jupiter8 S1100's Analog desk Outboard effects only!
DMX 808 LINNDRUM DPX SYNCUSSION etc...
No DAW, but a RADAR24 for multitrack.
Analog tape to record guitars and vocals, THEN sample and edit on S1100 and S5000.
Drawmer compression (a BIT).
Mastering through DCS converters.
Why? Because that is MY SOUND, and i LIKE IT...
Watch this youtube thingy and maybe you'll understand..:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZCY2hcu91c
Wednesday February 17, 2010
On Time Recording, Brooklyn, Ny, Made In Usa
If they could do it, then anybody who knows what they are doing should be able to take a four or eight recorder and record a four or five piece band with no problem whatsoever.
This is so right...."It's not sometimes what you have, it's how you use it.
This is so right...."It's not sometimes what you have, it's how you use it.
Wednesday February 10, 2010
Angelina, Köln, Germany
Why replace parts that still do an excellent job? I still use a TCD-D7 as a backup live recorder. And believe me, there are times I am so happy about this... when all that shiny modern crap simply fails like an iffy diva.
Monday February 08, 2010
Chris Maxin, Nashville, USA
I still use my faithful Lexicon PCM-90 and MPX-1 for the simple fact that they still sound awesome and they don't tax my CPU, leaving more processing power for EQ's,compressors, etc.
Tuesday January 26, 2010
Bernie Scott, St. John's, Nfld., Canada
The Shure Vocal Master I have is all high Impedence. But it still works. You might want to keep that old 4 track. I vae a couple of Tascams here, two Fostex and four Sonys. The Tascams and Fostex are 8 tracks. A 4 track sony and the rest are two tracks. I wouldn't part with any of them. One of the Sony's are auto reverse. Daniel you make a very good point. THe problems with hiss and noise was something that you had to live with years ago. Now digital editing can take care of that and leave you with the best of both worlds. I wouldn't even buy a new guitar amp these days. The craftsmanship and quality is just not there. Not like the amps built in the 60s and 70's.
Tuesday January 26, 2010
Daniel, Moscow, Russia
I use few outboard devices as well as laptops, which I use only for live sound processing and midi-sequencening.
There was a time when I used crappy almost dead soviet professional mixing console and amps. I want that stuff back so bad, because all the problems it had could be fixed nowadays with computer-based editing. And on the other hand there is no simpler way to achieve roughness and liveliness of sound than by using those dino-devices...
There was a time when I used crappy almost dead soviet professional mixing console and amps. I want that stuff back so bad, because all the problems it had could be fixed nowadays with computer-based editing. And on the other hand there is no simpler way to achieve roughness and liveliness of sound than by using those dino-devices...
Tuesday January 26, 2010
Drew, Kc, Mo
Oh yeah and I do also have the "Realistic" 4 track 1/4"..
Tuesday January 26, 2010
Drew, Kc, Mo
The Shure was the line mic mixer it has xlrs on the back and "tophat" knobs on the front rca outs I believe this model was originally made for broadcast use. I still have one at the studio in the cabinet somewhere, I'll look for the model number tomorrow at the studio, haven't plugged one in for years but as I recall the mic pre's were pretty sweet.. Of course the good old days look better now than they did then..
Tuesday January 26, 2010
Bernie Scott, St. John's, Nfld, Canada
What kind of Shure mixer did you use. Was it the Vocal Master 100 watt head in the grey covering with the two grey speaker columns? I still have one of these. You are absolutely right in your coments. There is no right or wrong when it comes to gear. It basically comes down to price and what you can easily work with. For me I use analog. I edit with digital. And that works great for me. The younger kids these days would learn alot first if they were able to at least get some hands on training in how to use this older equipment. Maybe they might appreciate the whole recording process more.
Cheers.
Cheers.
Monday January 25, 2010
Drew, Kc, Mo
I started in the 70's with my old band using a pair of realistic 4 track reel to reels and a shure mic mixer.. I loved the ingenuity it took .. Thanks for the info on Peppers, I agree low tech is cool, and I'm a huge fan, but a lot of young guys these days never used a razor blade on a tape, or a "4 man on the faders" mixing session, it was indeed cool, and I wouldn't trade it for the world.
I have to admit though I'm becoming spoiled by editing in the box, and plugins are less troublesome and WAY less expensive considering in the old days, if I wanted 15 channels of compression, I needed to by 15 compressors, now I only need 1 plug in...
My other point is while low tech gear from way back was cool, the good stuff, cost a FORTUNE, the price of a workable studio has come down to 1/10th what it was 15 or 20 years ago, I could never have afforded the gear I'd need, to get the sound I get now, in 1990.
I have to admit though I'm becoming spoiled by editing in the box, and plugins are less troublesome and WAY less expensive considering in the old days, if I wanted 15 channels of compression, I needed to by 15 compressors, now I only need 1 plug in...
My other point is while low tech gear from way back was cool, the good stuff, cost a FORTUNE, the price of a workable studio has come down to 1/10th what it was 15 or 20 years ago, I could never have afforded the gear I'd need, to get the sound I get now, in 1990.
Monday January 25, 2010
Bernie Scott, St. John's Nfld., Canada
It's not a question as to which is right or wrong. I think that different people have different tastes in equipment. Abbey Road Studios did have an 8 track after Paul McCartney happened to see one in another rival studio in England at the time. He went back to the Abbey complaining about it. Sargent Pepper was done on a four track. The ablum Abbey Road was on an eight track.That is according to the book I have called THe Complete Beatles Recording Sessions,The Official Story of Abbey Road years 1962-1970. This is a fantastic book as it describes in great detail how every song was tracked and mixed. The pictures are fantastic. You see al the gear that was top of the line back then. This is the reason why I say, if they could do it, thenanybody who knows what they are doing should be able to take a four or eight recorder and record a four or five
piece band with no problem whatsoever. You just have to know how to use the equipmnet, know it's limitations and most importantly, know how to get around those limitations. And if one piece of my equipment breaks, I can continue to record without anaydowntime, that is of couse the recorder or mixer doesn't crap out. But if my laptop gives out, I cna't do a god dam thing. I can repair my reel to reel, my mixer, my effects,etc. I can't take apart my laptop and fix the motherboard and I highly doubt anybody else can either. I have an advantage. I repair all my gear as I am an electronic technican.I have about 40 or 50 thousand dollars of gear downstairs that cost me less than ten. Most of the stuff neeed to be fixed up. I even have a computer here with recording and editing software on it. I only use it for editing. I never record my tracks with it. I'm not trying to start an agruement here, I am just saying what I like to use. There is no right or wrong to anything. If you can get anaa excellent sound with what you are using then that is all that matters really. And the most important thing of all....is to have fun while you are doing it.
piece band with no problem whatsoever. You just have to know how to use the equipmnet, know it's limitations and most importantly, know how to get around those limitations. And if one piece of my equipment breaks, I can continue to record without anaydowntime, that is of couse the recorder or mixer doesn't crap out. But if my laptop gives out, I cna't do a god dam thing. I can repair my reel to reel, my mixer, my effects,etc. I can't take apart my laptop and fix the motherboard and I highly doubt anybody else can either. I have an advantage. I repair all my gear as I am an electronic technican.I have about 40 or 50 thousand dollars of gear downstairs that cost me less than ten. Most of the stuff neeed to be fixed up. I even have a computer here with recording and editing software on it. I only use it for editing. I never record my tracks with it. I'm not trying to start an agruement here, I am just saying what I like to use. There is no right or wrong to anything. If you can get anaa excellent sound with what you are using then that is all that matters really. And the most important thing of all....is to have fun while you are doing it.
Monday January 25, 2010
Drew, Kc, Mo
Oh and BTW Abbey Road studios had 8 track at the time of Sgt Peppers, and remember too, the old stuff , especially the old GOOD stuff, was anything but cheap!!! Back then it used to take a couple million dollars to make any kind of studio capable of producing major label releases.
Now you can do it with a notebook an interface and a copy of cubase....
We all tend to go " back in the good old days" but computer audio has let people like me open a studio for a lot less money and has really evened the playing field..
Now you can do it with a notebook an interface and a copy of cubase....
We all tend to go " back in the good old days" but computer audio has let people like me open a studio for a lot less money and has really evened the playing field..
Monday January 25, 2010
Drew, Kc, Mo
I use a tube mic pre and compressor,but thats about it..
The biggest advantage of DAW based recording is visual editing, emoving all the little blips etc and the 4 conts and even lining up "hits" I remember using razor blades to edit and having to erase out spots manually..
The biggest advantage of DAW based recording is visual editing, emoving all the little blips etc and the 4 conts and even lining up "hits" I remember using razor blades to edit and having to erase out spots manually..
Monday January 25, 2010
George Michael, Harrisonburg, USA
I use outboard effects because I'm not computer based and won't be until my stuff's not worth fixing or parts go NLA. I use a standalone 8-track digital hard disk recorder and can move lightning-fast on it. My front end is a high-end tube mic and preamp, which I record to an Otari 5050, and it's warm as toast, sounds like the old days. I master to an HHB CD recorder and couldn't be happier. No computer crashes or glitches for me :)
Monday January 25, 2010
Bernie Scott, St. John's, Nfld., Canada
Vacuum Tube amps were manufactured before solid stat. And they still are. Why? Because they are better. I did an experiment for somebody recently.I took a store bought cd and copied it to a reel to reel. When I played both of them back, on the same system of course, the copy from the reel to reel was ten times better than the original. I heard guitar parts that I couldn't even hear on the cd. The Beatles recorded pretty much all their stuff on four tracks. Sargent's Peppers Lonely Heart's Club Band album was done on a four track. With all that music. It only goes to show that you don't need gear that costs a fortune. You can get an excellent sound out of so called "old gear". When anything belonged to me breaks, I lose that one piece of gear. If your computer breaks or a self contaianed unit that does everything for you,, you lose everything. Remember the TV''s with the built in VCR? If either one of it breaks then the entire unit has to go in for service.
Monday January 25, 2010
Rob Ash, Bridgend, Wales
some good points ,i record on a Roland vs 2400 and back up to cd,it still has a lot of things that analogue can never have ,moving faders, undo,on boourd effects,scene,midi,ive just spent£900 on a mac book pro and have to wait before i can add more,but for me the all impotant thing is the song,if its a crap song no end of brilliant equipment can help,if all u had was one dat and two mikes and a mixer,yet you knew you had just written a killer song,would you wait around until you got a pro tools system,hey but then you forgot the song,technology is good ,but its still the performance and the song that counts.
Monday January 25, 2010
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The Fairchild 660, Neve 33609, Teletronix LA-2A and the Universal Audio 1176 - reputedly the best compressors in the world. Hear them all on female vocal recorded at Abbey Road Studio 3. Who knows... The Beatles might have used some of these compressors in their heyday. Audio and video Multimedia Set™. Four Classic Compressors Compared on Female Vocal
An Introduction to Compression: Basic Compression
"An Introduction to Compression: Basic Compression" shows you the science, technology and art of compression. From threshold through ratio to make-up gain, "An Introduction to Compression: Basic Compression" explains all of the foundation knowledge you need to know. Covers all the basic compressor controls, and compression techniques for dynamic range control and musical enhancement. If you don't know the material covered by "An Introduction to Compression: Basic Compression" then you simply don't know compression. An Introduction to Compression: Basic Compression
An Introduction to Live Sound Monitoring
If you play in a band, or work in live sound, you need to understand stage monitoring. There's nothing that makes more difference to getting a good performance than getting the monitors right. It isn't easy, but this e-Learning Module shows you how! For your house of worship too. An Introduction to Live Sound Monitoring
The Charlotte Roel Microphone Test at Abbey Road Studio 3
Hear nine classic and modern microphones on female vocal, recorded in studio master quality at Abbey Road Studio 3. The tests include classic tube Neumann U47 and AKG C12 mics, plus five other amazing mics you NEED to know (some costing as little as $300!). PLUS video recordings of all of the tests. The Charlotte Roel Microphone Test at Abbey Road Studio 3